I believe Zibby was asking for assurances that should there be antisemitic rhetoric ZBF had a plan in place to not allow their event to be a platform for hate. I do not think Zibby meant that an award recipient could not express concern for Palestinians civilians in Gaza. Those are two veey different things.
I believe Zibby was asking for assurances that should there be antisemitic rhetoric ZBF had a plan in place to not allow their event to be a platform for hate. I do not think Zibby meant that an award recipient could not express concern for Palestinians civilians in Gaza. Those are two veey different things.
"A platform for hate" is often used to silence dissent - in this case political dissent. If someone were to say something directly antisemitic of course any decent person would agree that they should not be re-invited to the table. However, to criticize Israel has been inappropriate instilled in the collective as equivalent to being anti-semitic. Criticizing hamas is not anti-muslim or anti-arabic. It is criticizing the actions of a group that does terrible things. Criticizing a formal government that engages in consistent acts of terrorism is no different.
I understand the distinction and thank you for the response. However, the unbalanced condemnation of Israel versus other governments does have antisemitic roots and needs to be acknowledged. Also, to criticize Israel but not Hamas is a strange way to underscore the inhumane treatmen of the Palestinian people. While I do believe Netanyahu has been bad for Israel and for the plight of Palestinians and I disagree with his political agenda, I also believe the Palestinian peopleтАЩs circumstances are much more a direct consequence of HamasтАЩ siphoning of aid and inhumane propaganda campaign keeping innocent civilians living in poverty as тАЬmartyrsтАЭ (although really sacrificial lambs) than the Israeli government. In other words, how can you point to the Palestinian peopleтАЩs pain and not apply blame to Hamas but only apply blame to Israel? DoesnтАЩt that ring false and raise questions about the person pointing the finger? It makes me think that person is antisemitic.
This is such a racist reply that implies the Palestinian people aren't suffering under an apartheid occupation with their ability to own, earn, and move about freely in their own neighborhoods and even houses at times. Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the world and one of the most powerful militaries. This notion that they aren't to blame for the conditions of everything prior to the current ethnic cleansing and genocide that is currently happening mirrors how racists in this country always bring up black-on-black crime while ignoring systemic racism that to this day targets innocent members of the community while starving them of resources, education, healthy food, jobs, and on and on. Hamas was supported by Netanyahu and magically wasn't touched on Oct 7th for 6 hours and now he is flattening Gaza and mass amounts of human lives and giving contracts out to oil companies as the IDF takes control of land directly in front of the sea where they will drill. Publications from inside Israel have reported about his connections to Hamas. You haven't done enough reading on this situation and it shows. Please do better and stop using antisemitism to help cover for war crimes.
Borders were closed on the Israeli side and EGYPTIAN side because Hamas was waging terror attacks son innocent civilians in both countries. тЬЕ
Israel perpetrates ethnic cleansing and genocide тЭМ
The Palestinian population has more than doubled тЬЕ
There is intersectionality between systemic racism marginalizing Black Americans and the Palestinian oppression тЭМ
Black Americans have been systemically discriminated against for centuries as is seen through systematic oppressive laws and barriers to entry like the GI Bill, Red Lining, Segregation, Gentrification/Imminent Domain and many more systemic inequities. Palestinian people living in Israel experience full equal rights and access and make up 20% of the Israeli citizenship. They hold high level positions and are almost 30% of the Knesset. Palestinians living in Gaza unfortunately are governed by Hamas who bully, torment and oppress their civilians in addition to brain wash them to hate Jews and Arabs living in Israel. Hamas uses Palestinian civilians living in Gaza as human shields and propaganda sacrificial lambs. Look at the wake of violence Hamas leaves behind and the tunnels they build under hospitals and schools and refugee camps. Look at the wealth of the Hamas leaders versus the poverty of the fighters and civilians risking their lives. The discrepancy is in front of your eyes. Do you really believe the group that drops flyers telling civilians before they bomb and pausing to let civilians through border crossings and providing humanitarian care to civilians is the problem? Not the group that beheaded babies and raped and tortured innocent civilians? Use your common sense. One group is backed by a democracy where people of different religions and backgrounds live in prosperity and peace while the other is run by a radical Islamic regime who beheads people who are different from them. One has a charter calling for the extinction of a people based on their religion and the other has a democratic mission. Really, use your head and wake up.
-I didn't say he funded them. I said he supported them. Nice try though.
-Israel has been designated an apartheid state by Human Rights Watch in 2021, Amnesty International in 2022, and Israel scholars and former Israeli officials have also started using this designation. In 2022, Michael Ben-Yair, a former attorney general of Israel, said that тАЬit is with great sadness ... I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime.тАЭ Earlier this year, Tamir Pardo, a former head of Mossad, IsraelтАЩs intelligence agency, emphasized, too, that тАЬthere is an apartheid state hereтАЭ featuring тАЬtwo people [who] are judged under two legal systems. Again, nice try.
-The Palestinian population has doubled since Oct 7th? Interesting. I'd love to see that evidence. The more you know.
-Palestinians don't experience equal rights which is why they are designated by the groups and individuals smarter than you that I listed as living in an Israeli apartheid state.
-Yes, Hamas is in Gaza. If Hamas was at an elementary school with your loved one in it would you want the government to bomb it to get Hamas? I didn't think so. You're showing you don't care about Palestinians because they aren't the right melanin.
-They drop flyers and then bombs after they lie about the amount of time they gave and had no plan for the elderly, sick, disabled, and hospitalized. I'm in awe at your blatant rationalizing of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza. Whew.
-Israel itself admitted they lied about beheaded babies. That doesn't mean civilians weren't killed. It is an example of how Israeli govt lies to warrant their war crimes. No evidence was ever found. You gotta keep up with the latest propaganda that's been debunked Hillary.
-Islamophobia. Saw that one coming a mile away. One group is not backed by democracy they are literally jailing Israelis for posting and liking what they deam anti-zionism material. There are videos of some of the arrests and also videos of them torturing or murdering innocent farmers in North Gaza. All that coupled with their ethnic cleansing and genocide points to them being run by fascists.
Try more reading and watching of the Palestinian experience and members of that community unless, of course, you don't see them as equal. Also, try not to copy and paste from articles or social media posts you looked up real quick to try to sound well-read but didn't actually read. Or hide it better. It was too obvious.
Ed, you canтАЩt argue with someone who believes lies. IтАЩm sorry but almost none of what you wrote above is accurate. And the idea that you think the violence on 10/7 didnтАЩt happen тАЬno proofтАЭ of beheaded babies is flabbergasting and, quite honestly, incredibly insulting. Good luck Ed.
There are Jews protesting all over this country for a ceasefire and that are pro-Palestine. Are they Jew haters? Your grade school response is evidence you aren't intellectually equipped to have this conversation. Stop using Jewish people to shield your support for genocide.
I never said 10/7 didn't happen. Don't put words in my mouth because your arguments were dismantled bit by lying bit. Israel itself debunked the beheaded babies claim yet you aren't flabbergasted and insulted by the fact they lied or are actually beheading babies with their bombs. It is overwhelming to see an individual completely and willingly living a lie in order to feel superior to others. Amazing. I completely agree that you can't argue with someone who believes lies. Your response was Exhibit A. Have the weekend you deserve.
You following the information about Hamas sexual violence or is that another thing you donтАЩt believe. You following that Abbas stated that Israel killed all the concert goers (360 ppl). Thats something youтАЩd like to believe. These barbarians (Hamas) are your heroes. That reflects on you.
ThatтАЩs a long article, but I read the whole thing. It was published five years ago. Here are a few excerpts that explain why Israel at first supported Hamas:
Time and again, Israel's efforts to find a pliant Palestinian partner that is both credible with Palestinians and willing to eschew violence, have backfired. Would-be partners have turned into foes or lost the support of their people.
Israel's experience echoes that of the U.S., which, during the Cold War, looked to Islamists as a useful ally against communism. Anti-Soviet forces backed by America after Moscow's 1979 invasion of Afghanistan later mutated into al Qaeda.
When Israel first encountered Islamists in Gaza in the 1970s and '80s, they seemed focused on studying the Quran, not on confrontation with Israel. The Israeli government officially recognized a precursor to Hamas called Mujama Al-Islamiya, registering the group as a charity. It allowed Mujama members to set up an Islamic university and build mosques, clubs and schools. Crucially, Israel often stood aside when the Islamists and their secular left-wing Palestinian rivals battled, sometimes violently, for influence in both Gaza and the West Bank.
Former officials say Israel was also at the time wary of being viewed as an enemy of Islam.
Yup. The current reporting is accurate but your link proves Israel's government has been supporting Hamas for AT LEAST a decade to prevent a two-state solution.
Thank you for pointing this out, Hillary. Really important....I think Zibby was asking if the NBF had any plans in place in case the comments made were antisemitic in nature and whether NBF inadvertenly became a platform for hate by allowing a statement to made by the all the authors. It seems, based on the information that we have (which admitedly may not be complete) that NBF had no plans to place to do anything if their platform was used inappropriately. I think that is what Zibby was reacting to, and I support her in that. I'm all for authors having their say on all issues (it would be nice if their group comment tonight spoke to author silence on massacres in Syria or detentions in China) and even saying something at the ceremony about a ceasefire. But if hateful, antisemitic comments are also included, NBF should have a plan in place to respond. It seems they have come up, not surprisngly, empty. (Of course, had this been any other community besides Jews/Israelis, there would be a plan in place presumably. But that is a another topic.) I'm glad NBF is allowing authors to have their say. NBF had a chance to reassure one of its donors that it would be on top of things if the statement was inappropriate and it couldn't provide that assurance to the sponsor. The sponsor walked away. That's how these things are supposed to work. Sounds like NBF, a group I really respect, blew it. Be angry at them, not Zibby.
ItтАЩs delusional to claim the government of Israel commits acts of terrorism. Israel attacks to defend against real and present danger and goes to great length to avoid civilian deaths. Gazans attack civilians directly as their goal. They laugh about it. They brag about it. They record it. They do it specifically to induce terror.
I wish you all the best. I won't be checking back this page, as I have already given plenty of time for people to offer an open dialogue that is respectful, but I hope seeds have been planted. Shalom.
1. DonтАЩt shy away from an argument. In the Jewish tradition, arguments are good and healthy. A productive society is fueled by vigorous debate, so donтАЩt shy away from getting into one. There are more productive ways than others to argue, but argument itself is a time-tested Jewish tradition, and it has been valued and practiced for centuries by Jewish rabbis, scholars, and lay people alike.
2. Examine every angle. Jews believe that you canтАЩt find the truth until you examine every angle and exhaust every argument. We even have a word for it, Machloket, which is a dispute between two differing opinions on a legal interpretation of the Torah.
3. DonтАЩt be afraid to be wrong. Enter a debate armed with facts and your passionate perspective. Argue your point of view, but be open to considering the alternative. Dissent doesnтАЩt require arriving at a conclusion, and being proven wrong doesnтАЩt reflect badly on you.
4. Rehash and reevaluate. The Talmud is a sacred book of arguments, which contains thousands upon thousands of differing commentaries on the Torah and how its commandments should be carried out. Throughout history, rabbis have added to the Talmud, even rehashing the value and interpretation of earlier discussions, and reevaluating them in a modern context.
5. Value diversity of opinion. Jewish people consider diversity of opinion a strength. Our tradition dates back thousands of years and it has changed with the times. Movements such as Reform and Conservative Judaism have arisen from a modern application of sacred texts.
6. Be informed. The art of debate and dissent requires a strong base of knowledge. You must be informed in order to join the fray and be able to stand up in a rigorous debate with those who disagree. That includes being well-versed on the opposing perspective.
7. Talk to each other, not at each other. Listen as much as you speak. In Judaism, debate is all about arriving at the (or a) truth. If we simply talk at each other or talk only in order to delegitimize the other, we wonтАЩt arrive at any truth. Even if at the end you donтАЩt agree, someone with an opposing view often has something to teach you, but only if youтАЩre open to the lesson.
8. DonтАЩt belabor your point. Jewish people have a great tradition of rest. Shabbat, or the Sabbath, observed Friday night into Saturday, is a weekly ritual where Jews are asked (even required) to stop, reflect, and just be. You donтАЩt have to reach a consensus at the end of every discussion. Know when to walk away and give the argument a rest.
9. Respect your opponent. While debate is a time-tested Jewish tradition, it is done with respect and civility. The idea is to find common ground where possible; thatтАЩs only done with compassion and consideration.
If I thought what you thought I might feel the same about what you think about me. However, using the word delusional is not conducive to mutual understanding. It's a form of gaslighting and hate toward a person with an opinion that differs from yours, because it disqualifies them from having that opinion and without any basis other than that you have arbitrarily decided they are so wrong they should be dismissed as delusional. I have invited anyone who wishes to present to me the facts as they understand them, with sources to the contrary. Not because I want to win an argument but because we have to understand that good people often see things very differently, but if we can at least realize that people's conclusions are understandable if we get inside there shoes, maybe we can stop dehumanizing anyone and build peace. War is delusional because it is based on the false premise that painting the "other" in black and white, and being willing to kill regular people (whether soldiers or civilians) will do more than advance the chess game of people who manipulate the game. They'll hang a rook or sacrifice a knight. The queen is forced to defend the king. But the king is always protected. I want to play the game of life where all people flourish and that can only happen if we seek to understand different perspectives and have more compassion even if we totally have strong, opposite feelings and beliefs. People may be deluded, or we may think they are deluded but the assumption is often without basis (you have not presented your case, nor have you heard why I believe what I believe,) in deeply wrong. Instead, together we can help one another grow toward better understanding if we stop the name calling or the implied name calling and dismissing of dissent in such disrespectful way. Blessings and peace to you.
Hi there. I actually was quite critical of the metoo movement for several reasons and I have a nuanced view of the gender issues as well. We need to be able to have conversations without insulting each other if we are to create a liveable world where all are respected, safe, free, whole and able to be themselves without pressure, coercion, abuse or rape. My criticisms of the metoo movement included its unequal application to both political parties and its failure to address child rape, either in terms of incest or in terms of elite child trafficking and blackmail. My criticism of the gender issue is that while I fully support non-binary people, there is a lack of integrity in ensuring that root causes are addressed and that there is no abuse, coercion or secrecy, before or after someone undergoes anything related to their gender.
I would like to point out that "Not so young anymore" has expressed quit a bit of actual hate toward me on this forum. I have read on this topic but I am always open to learning more. That's why I invited someone to share some information, with sources that I might not have come across.
I basically think that you know so little about this topic like so many people but feel so free to share... itтАЩs not just you its many who lack basic historical facts but when it comes to Jews and Israel the gloves are off
But the funny thing is I am open to learning more but you tell me I shouldn't ask for sources. if your goal is to help people better understand, how is your approach helping?
My approach is my opinion. If there were a world conflict that I knew little about, I would learn about it off line and keep my uninformed opinions to myself. Thats just me. I find that when it comes to Israel and Jews people have so many opinions based on nothing. But Assad can kill 1/2 million people and they donтАЩt blink. Or civil war can range in Congo but no one cares. But Jews and Israel are always in the line of fire.
I have an informed opinion. I do read off line. My goal is not about opinions but about compassion for the fact that human beings of different opinons all want peace, that we have a right to criticize any government we believe to be corrupt, including Israel, and that I believe based on my independent reading that Israel's government does not represent the best of the Jewish people, does not seek the true best interest of the Jewish people and is just as terrible as terrorist group. But I am open to new information as conclusions are overturned everyday by curious people. Your approach is to call everyone you disagree with disgusting or a Jew hater. That is hate. That is what we should all stand against.
One thing she could have done to get that point across (if thatтАЩs what she meant) would have been to simply say that and not add all the other stuff that I was disagreeing with. Unfortunately she said all the other things so I had to assume she meant them as well.
She equated anti-Israel commentary with anti-semitism. That is exactly what she said and itтАЩs exhausting to see Jewish people stand up and shout a defence of Israel and yet say nothing about its murderous campaign against the Palestinians. Unfollowing everyone who тАЬlikedтАЭ ZibnyтАЩs post.
I believe Zibby was asking for assurances that should there be antisemitic rhetoric ZBF had a plan in place to not allow their event to be a platform for hate. I do not think Zibby meant that an award recipient could not express concern for Palestinians civilians in Gaza. Those are two veey different things.
"A platform for hate" is often used to silence dissent - in this case political dissent. If someone were to say something directly antisemitic of course any decent person would agree that they should not be re-invited to the table. However, to criticize Israel has been inappropriate instilled in the collective as equivalent to being anti-semitic. Criticizing hamas is not anti-muslim or anti-arabic. It is criticizing the actions of a group that does terrible things. Criticizing a formal government that engages in consistent acts of terrorism is no different.
I understand the distinction and thank you for the response. However, the unbalanced condemnation of Israel versus other governments does have antisemitic roots and needs to be acknowledged. Also, to criticize Israel but not Hamas is a strange way to underscore the inhumane treatmen of the Palestinian people. While I do believe Netanyahu has been bad for Israel and for the plight of Palestinians and I disagree with his political agenda, I also believe the Palestinian peopleтАЩs circumstances are much more a direct consequence of HamasтАЩ siphoning of aid and inhumane propaganda campaign keeping innocent civilians living in poverty as тАЬmartyrsтАЭ (although really sacrificial lambs) than the Israeli government. In other words, how can you point to the Palestinian peopleтАЩs pain and not apply blame to Hamas but only apply blame to Israel? DoesnтАЩt that ring false and raise questions about the person pointing the finger? It makes me think that person is antisemitic.
This is such a racist reply that implies the Palestinian people aren't suffering under an apartheid occupation with their ability to own, earn, and move about freely in their own neighborhoods and even houses at times. Israel has the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the world and one of the most powerful militaries. This notion that they aren't to blame for the conditions of everything prior to the current ethnic cleansing and genocide that is currently happening mirrors how racists in this country always bring up black-on-black crime while ignoring systemic racism that to this day targets innocent members of the community while starving them of resources, education, healthy food, jobs, and on and on. Hamas was supported by Netanyahu and magically wasn't touched on Oct 7th for 6 hours and now he is flattening Gaza and mass amounts of human lives and giving contracts out to oil companies as the IDF takes control of land directly in front of the sea where they will drill. Publications from inside Israel have reported about his connections to Hamas. You haven't done enough reading on this situation and it shows. Please do better and stop using antisemitism to help cover for war crimes.
Facts that are inaccurate:
Netanyahu funds Hamas. тЭМ
Iran funds Hamas тЬЕ
Israel is an apartment state тЭМ
Gaza has been governed by Hamas since 2006 тЬЕ
Borders were closed on the Israeli side and EGYPTIAN side because Hamas was waging terror attacks son innocent civilians in both countries. тЬЕ
Israel perpetrates ethnic cleansing and genocide тЭМ
The Palestinian population has more than doubled тЬЕ
There is intersectionality between systemic racism marginalizing Black Americans and the Palestinian oppression тЭМ
Black Americans have been systemically discriminated against for centuries as is seen through systematic oppressive laws and barriers to entry like the GI Bill, Red Lining, Segregation, Gentrification/Imminent Domain and many more systemic inequities. Palestinian people living in Israel experience full equal rights and access and make up 20% of the Israeli citizenship. They hold high level positions and are almost 30% of the Knesset. Palestinians living in Gaza unfortunately are governed by Hamas who bully, torment and oppress their civilians in addition to brain wash them to hate Jews and Arabs living in Israel. Hamas uses Palestinian civilians living in Gaza as human shields and propaganda sacrificial lambs. Look at the wake of violence Hamas leaves behind and the tunnels they build under hospitals and schools and refugee camps. Look at the wealth of the Hamas leaders versus the poverty of the fighters and civilians risking their lives. The discrepancy is in front of your eyes. Do you really believe the group that drops flyers telling civilians before they bomb and pausing to let civilians through border crossings and providing humanitarian care to civilians is the problem? Not the group that beheaded babies and raped and tortured innocent civilians? Use your common sense. One group is backed by a democracy where people of different religions and backgrounds live in prosperity and peace while the other is run by a radical Islamic regime who beheads people who are different from them. One has a charter calling for the extinction of a people based on their religion and the other has a democratic mission. Really, use your head and wake up.
-I didn't say he funded them. I said he supported them. Nice try though.
-Israel has been designated an apartheid state by Human Rights Watch in 2021, Amnesty International in 2022, and Israel scholars and former Israeli officials have also started using this designation. In 2022, Michael Ben-Yair, a former attorney general of Israel, said that тАЬit is with great sadness ... I must also conclude that my country has sunk to such political and moral depths that it is now an apartheid regime.тАЭ Earlier this year, Tamir Pardo, a former head of Mossad, IsraelтАЩs intelligence agency, emphasized, too, that тАЬthere is an apartheid state hereтАЭ featuring тАЬtwo people [who] are judged under two legal systems. Again, nice try.
-The Palestinian population has doubled since Oct 7th? Interesting. I'd love to see that evidence. The more you know.
-Palestinians don't experience equal rights which is why they are designated by the groups and individuals smarter than you that I listed as living in an Israeli apartheid state.
-Yes, Hamas is in Gaza. If Hamas was at an elementary school with your loved one in it would you want the government to bomb it to get Hamas? I didn't think so. You're showing you don't care about Palestinians because they aren't the right melanin.
-They drop flyers and then bombs after they lie about the amount of time they gave and had no plan for the elderly, sick, disabled, and hospitalized. I'm in awe at your blatant rationalizing of ethnic cleansing and genocide in Gaza. Whew.
-Israel itself admitted they lied about beheaded babies. That doesn't mean civilians weren't killed. It is an example of how Israeli govt lies to warrant their war crimes. No evidence was ever found. You gotta keep up with the latest propaganda that's been debunked Hillary.
-Islamophobia. Saw that one coming a mile away. One group is not backed by democracy they are literally jailing Israelis for posting and liking what they deam anti-zionism material. There are videos of some of the arrests and also videos of them torturing or murdering innocent farmers in North Gaza. All that coupled with their ethnic cleansing and genocide points to them being run by fascists.
Try more reading and watching of the Palestinian experience and members of that community unless, of course, you don't see them as equal. Also, try not to copy and paste from articles or social media posts you looked up real quick to try to sound well-read but didn't actually read. Or hide it better. It was too obvious.
Nice talk sleepy head.
Ed, you canтАЩt argue with someone who believes lies. IтАЩm sorry but almost none of what you wrote above is accurate. And the idea that you think the violence on 10/7 didnтАЩt happen тАЬno proofтАЭ of beheaded babies is flabbergasting and, quite honestly, incredibly insulting. Good luck Ed.
Thx for trying, Hillary. Ed is a Jew hater and has no inkling of learning facts.
There are Jews protesting all over this country for a ceasefire and that are pro-Palestine. Are they Jew haters? Your grade school response is evidence you aren't intellectually equipped to have this conversation. Stop using Jewish people to shield your support for genocide.
Jews who have trouble with Jewish power.
Are you okay? You've posted nonsensical one-sentence responses and I'm worried about you.
Exactly.
I never said 10/7 didn't happen. Don't put words in my mouth because your arguments were dismantled bit by lying bit. Israel itself debunked the beheaded babies claim yet you aren't flabbergasted and insulted by the fact they lied or are actually beheading babies with their bombs. It is overwhelming to see an individual completely and willingly living a lie in order to feel superior to others. Amazing. I completely agree that you can't argue with someone who believes lies. Your response was Exhibit A. Have the weekend you deserve.
Pathetic.
Maybe you should let the adults who can formulate more than a one-word response have this one buddy. You're not adding anything to the discourse.
You following the information about Hamas sexual violence or is that another thing you donтАЩt believe. You following that Abbas stated that Israel killed all the concert goers (360 ppl). Thats something youтАЩd like to believe. These barbarians (Hamas) are your heroes. That reflects on you.
Fucking disgusting. "Ed" (Or AI called ED) is incredibly confused.
Whoops! https://web.archive.org/web/20151207212228/http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847
ThatтАЩs a long article, but I read the whole thing. It was published five years ago. Here are a few excerpts that explain why Israel at first supported Hamas:
Time and again, Israel's efforts to find a pliant Palestinian partner that is both credible with Palestinians and willing to eschew violence, have backfired. Would-be partners have turned into foes or lost the support of their people.
Israel's experience echoes that of the U.S., which, during the Cold War, looked to Islamists as a useful ally against communism. Anti-Soviet forces backed by America after Moscow's 1979 invasion of Afghanistan later mutated into al Qaeda.
When Israel first encountered Islamists in Gaza in the 1970s and '80s, they seemed focused on studying the Quran, not on confrontation with Israel. The Israeli government officially recognized a precursor to Hamas called Mujama Al-Islamiya, registering the group as a charity. It allowed Mujama members to set up an Islamic university and build mosques, clubs and schools. Crucially, Israel often stood aside when the Islamists and their secular left-wing Palestinian rivals battled, sometimes violently, for influence in both Gaza and the West Bank.
Former officials say Israel was also at the time wary of being viewed as an enemy of Islam.
Yup. The current reporting is accurate but your link proves Israel's government has been supporting Hamas for AT LEAST a decade to prevent a two-state solution.
Thank you for pointing this out, Hillary. Really important....I think Zibby was asking if the NBF had any plans in place in case the comments made were antisemitic in nature and whether NBF inadvertenly became a platform for hate by allowing a statement to made by the all the authors. It seems, based on the information that we have (which admitedly may not be complete) that NBF had no plans to place to do anything if their platform was used inappropriately. I think that is what Zibby was reacting to, and I support her in that. I'm all for authors having their say on all issues (it would be nice if their group comment tonight spoke to author silence on massacres in Syria or detentions in China) and even saying something at the ceremony about a ceasefire. But if hateful, antisemitic comments are also included, NBF should have a plan in place to respond. It seems they have come up, not surprisngly, empty. (Of course, had this been any other community besides Jews/Israelis, there would be a plan in place presumably. But that is a another topic.) I'm glad NBF is allowing authors to have their say. NBF had a chance to reassure one of its donors that it would be on top of things if the statement was inappropriate and it couldn't provide that assurance to the sponsor. The sponsor walked away. That's how these things are supposed to work. Sounds like NBF, a group I really respect, blew it. Be angry at them, not Zibby.
Perfectly stated, Hillary.
ItтАЩs delusional to claim the government of Israel commits acts of terrorism. Israel attacks to defend against real and present danger and goes to great length to avoid civilian deaths. Gazans attack civilians directly as their goal. They laugh about it. They brag about it. They record it. They do it specifically to induce terror.
100%.
I wish you all the best. I won't be checking back this page, as I have already given plenty of time for people to offer an open dialogue that is respectful, but I hope seeds have been planted. Shalom.
This is from Jewish Federation Cincinnati:
1. DonтАЩt shy away from an argument. In the Jewish tradition, arguments are good and healthy. A productive society is fueled by vigorous debate, so donтАЩt shy away from getting into one. There are more productive ways than others to argue, but argument itself is a time-tested Jewish tradition, and it has been valued and practiced for centuries by Jewish rabbis, scholars, and lay people alike.
2. Examine every angle. Jews believe that you canтАЩt find the truth until you examine every angle and exhaust every argument. We even have a word for it, Machloket, which is a dispute between two differing opinions on a legal interpretation of the Torah.
3. DonтАЩt be afraid to be wrong. Enter a debate armed with facts and your passionate perspective. Argue your point of view, but be open to considering the alternative. Dissent doesnтАЩt require arriving at a conclusion, and being proven wrong doesnтАЩt reflect badly on you.
4. Rehash and reevaluate. The Talmud is a sacred book of arguments, which contains thousands upon thousands of differing commentaries on the Torah and how its commandments should be carried out. Throughout history, rabbis have added to the Talmud, even rehashing the value and interpretation of earlier discussions, and reevaluating them in a modern context.
5. Value diversity of opinion. Jewish people consider diversity of opinion a strength. Our tradition dates back thousands of years and it has changed with the times. Movements such as Reform and Conservative Judaism have arisen from a modern application of sacred texts.
6. Be informed. The art of debate and dissent requires a strong base of knowledge. You must be informed in order to join the fray and be able to stand up in a rigorous debate with those who disagree. That includes being well-versed on the opposing perspective.
7. Talk to each other, not at each other. Listen as much as you speak. In Judaism, debate is all about arriving at the (or a) truth. If we simply talk at each other or talk only in order to delegitimize the other, we wonтАЩt arrive at any truth. Even if at the end you donтАЩt agree, someone with an opposing view often has something to teach you, but only if youтАЩre open to the lesson.
8. DonтАЩt belabor your point. Jewish people have a great tradition of rest. Shabbat, or the Sabbath, observed Friday night into Saturday, is a weekly ritual where Jews are asked (even required) to stop, reflect, and just be. You donтАЩt have to reach a consensus at the end of every discussion. Know when to walk away and give the argument a rest.
9. Respect your opponent. While debate is a time-tested Jewish tradition, it is done with respect and civility. The idea is to find common ground where possible; thatтАЩs only done with compassion and consideration.
Danielle V. Minson CEO
Raising the Bar
Ari (Ballaban) Jun JCRC Director
In Conversation
David Harris Chief Development Officer
Your Impact
Israeli Chronicles Connecting Israel & Cincinnati
If I thought what you thought I might feel the same about what you think about me. However, using the word delusional is not conducive to mutual understanding. It's a form of gaslighting and hate toward a person with an opinion that differs from yours, because it disqualifies them from having that opinion and without any basis other than that you have arbitrarily decided they are so wrong they should be dismissed as delusional. I have invited anyone who wishes to present to me the facts as they understand them, with sources to the contrary. Not because I want to win an argument but because we have to understand that good people often see things very differently, but if we can at least realize that people's conclusions are understandable if we get inside there shoes, maybe we can stop dehumanizing anyone and build peace. War is delusional because it is based on the false premise that painting the "other" in black and white, and being willing to kill regular people (whether soldiers or civilians) will do more than advance the chess game of people who manipulate the game. They'll hang a rook or sacrifice a knight. The queen is forced to defend the king. But the king is always protected. I want to play the game of life where all people flourish and that can only happen if we seek to understand different perspectives and have more compassion even if we totally have strong, opposite feelings and beliefs. People may be deluded, or we may think they are deluded but the assumption is often without basis (you have not presented your case, nor have you heard why I believe what I believe,) in deeply wrong. Instead, together we can help one another grow toward better understanding if we stop the name calling or the implied name calling and dismissing of dissent in such disrespectful way. Blessings and peace to you.
I bet if someone misgendered someone else youтАЩd be all kind of concerned. I bet you loved MeToo. But Jewish lives clearly donтАЩt matter for you.
Hi there. I actually was quite critical of the metoo movement for several reasons and I have a nuanced view of the gender issues as well. We need to be able to have conversations without insulting each other if we are to create a liveable world where all are respected, safe, free, whole and able to be themselves without pressure, coercion, abuse or rape. My criticisms of the metoo movement included its unequal application to both political parties and its failure to address child rape, either in terms of incest or in terms of elite child trafficking and blackmail. My criticism of the gender issue is that while I fully support non-binary people, there is a lack of integrity in ensuring that root causes are addressed and that there is no abuse, coercion or secrecy, before or after someone undergoes anything related to their gender.
I would like to point out that "Not so young anymore" has expressed quit a bit of actual hate toward me on this forum. I have read on this topic but I am always open to learning more. That's why I invited someone to share some information, with sources that I might not have come across.
I basically think that you know so little about this topic like so many people but feel so free to share... itтАЩs not just you its many who lack basic historical facts but when it comes to Jews and Israel the gloves are off
But the funny thing is I am open to learning more but you tell me I shouldn't ask for sources. if your goal is to help people better understand, how is your approach helping?
My approach is my opinion. If there were a world conflict that I knew little about, I would learn about it off line and keep my uninformed opinions to myself. Thats just me. I find that when it comes to Israel and Jews people have so many opinions based on nothing. But Assad can kill 1/2 million people and they donтАЩt blink. Or civil war can range in Congo but no one cares. But Jews and Israel are always in the line of fire.
I have an informed opinion. I do read off line. My goal is not about opinions but about compassion for the fact that human beings of different opinons all want peace, that we have a right to criticize any government we believe to be corrupt, including Israel, and that I believe based on my independent reading that Israel's government does not represent the best of the Jewish people, does not seek the true best interest of the Jewish people and is just as terrible as terrorist group. But I am open to new information as conclusions are overturned everyday by curious people. Your approach is to call everyone you disagree with disgusting or a Jew hater. That is hate. That is what we should all stand against.
One thing she could have done to get that point across (if thatтАЩs what she meant) would have been to simply say that and not add all the other stuff that I was disagreeing with. Unfortunately she said all the other things so I had to assume she meant them as well.
She equated anti-Israel commentary with anti-semitism. That is exactly what she said and itтАЩs exhausting to see Jewish people stand up and shout a defence of Israel and yet say nothing about its murderous campaign against the Palestinians. Unfollowing everyone who тАЬlikedтАЭ ZibnyтАЩs post.